Ka-Moi
Claustraphobic Snail...
Nibbles: 704
Crackin' since: July 2005
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Post by Ka-Moi on Oct 13, 2005 15:30:33 GMT -8
Not all the big dinos were carnivores, and there's no way they would've even WANTED to eat the humans. Take sharks as an example. They don't eat humans because 1.) we taste absolutely disgusting and 2.) we're too boney. They would've gone for softer creatrues.. like other dinosoures.. and Livestock!
What are they using for the standard carbondating measure? Seriously, I mean, they weren't around for so long to decide EXACALLY how fast the carbon gets released. It could go slow in the first few years, then suddenly leave. You never now. What sort of reference are they using?
Oh, and if we evolved, how come monkies aren't evolving into people now? They've had a lot of other chance ahead of us and nothing else is evolving as drastically as you say it does. I don't see chickens poppin' out of lizards or anything. And please don't confused Adaptation, with evolution.. That's just wrong.
See? You gotta ask a bunch of questions to see if what you're saying is really true or not.
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St. Jimmy
Nibbles: 663
Crackin' since: December 2004
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Post by St. Jimmy on Oct 13, 2005 18:00:58 GMT -8
Oh, and if we evolved, how come monkies aren't evolving into people now? They've had a lot of other chance ahead of us and nothing else is evolving as drastically as you say it does. I don't see chickens poppin' out of lizards or anything. And please don't confused Adaptation, with evolution.. That's just wrong. Simple, survival of the fittest. Australopithecus (earliest specie of human) first appeared in Central Africa about four and a half million years ago. The only difference between them and modern day gorillas was they were a little more intelligent than gorillas. They still walked on all fours but the break through was learning to get out of the trees to better fit their needs. This launched them on a train of discovery other species of monkeys haven't discovered. And keep in mind, the change from monkey to human like thing was a couple million years. and yes monkeys of the present are evolving but at rate too slow to notice. It will be a more notice transformation in couple thousand more years. Hell, in couple more million years, we might be twewnty feet tall with four legs a tail and two mouths, dogs might have scales, spiders might have a thick coat of fur and purr. Only time can tell. And lastly, evolution comes from adaptation. As our bodies adapt to what better suits our needs, our bodies will change over time. Um, you do know that Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible, right? Yes, I do know, but what he wrote wasn't the Old Testament until Christians took it and made it part of the bible.
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Ka-Moi
Claustraphobic Snail...
Nibbles: 704
Crackin' since: July 2005
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Post by Ka-Moi on Oct 13, 2005 18:46:50 GMT -8
Yeah. It was. God told him to write it, so he did.. That's all part of the bible that God wanted written... 0.o;; It's almost scary trying to explain things to people who don't know the basics..
OKay, so over a couple million years, we were evolving, right? Then in a couple more million years we stopped evolving and there was a distinct difference between human and animal. That doesn't sound too realistic.
Animals cannot have a free will. It was a gift by God. No matter how intelligent an animal is, it will never have a free will, no matter how much it adapts. They cannot choose for themselves, they can only do what they're told/trained or what instinct tells them to.
I highly doubt that apes only knowing that they need to eat and to stay away from other, bigger, apes, would learn 'hey, why don't we go and build something' let alone create the complex civilizations we have today. Why would apes have a need for all that junk? It's just ruining their natural eviroment, what they've been living with for a long time.
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St. Jimmy
Nibbles: 663
Crackin' since: December 2004
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Post by St. Jimmy on Oct 14, 2005 10:58:29 GMT -8
Well, first of all, we are still evolving and so is everything around us. A good example right now is the avian flu that might cause a pandemic. Avian flu isn't usually a problem but a certain strain of that virus (h5 i beleive) has evolved to effect not just birds but people also. That change helps the virus survive. Secondly apes didn't go from trees to sky scrapers in a snap, that would be rediculos! First we were hunters and gatherers, nomads, then we made another brake through, farming. This lets us stay in one place and we make villages. Over more time the villages becamed larger and larger until cities came along and those cities put together led to the creation of Sumer and Egypt, and so on. Again, this process from trees to skyscrapers took a couple million years.
The major problem I have with intelligent design, is, its waaaaay to simple of an answer. One day we just fell from the sky, had sex and made more and more people. Evolution is always changing because it is very complex, like the rest of the universe.
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Ka-Moi
Claustraphobic Snail...
Nibbles: 704
Crackin' since: July 2005
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Post by Ka-Moi on Oct 14, 2005 13:28:14 GMT -8
Hunters and gatherers also used tools. Why would apes use tools? Why would apes feel the need to get clothes, too? They were walking around naked all their life, why would they suddenly say 'Oh! That's not right! We must cover ourselves!"?
And the virus isn't evolving, it's adapting to survive. It's the exact same thing everthing does. It just wants to survive.
And we didn't just fall from the sky. We were created. It's all explained in the first chapter of Genesis. God said let there be light and there was.
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xeno|oreo
.:Nutcase-In-Chief:.
Nibbles: 5,073
Crackin' since: August 2004
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Post by xeno|oreo on Oct 14, 2005 19:21:37 GMT -8
Interesting points on both sides so far.
As for apes going to humans, certain species of apes that lived in certain areas of the earth developed more humanlike - as in walking on two legs - due to an adapation. The climate of the region of earth they were living in at the moment (resulting in changed of the location of India) caused massive areas of land to get drier. This caused trees to become more sparse. The apes which lived in the trees began to walk on two legs to more efficiently traverse the increasing distance between trees.
Modernday apes, along with our ancestors, used tools to eat bugs. Modern baboons do so with termites now, as did our ancestors. We eventually started using rocks as projectile weapons also with time.
These projectile weapons allowed us to begin eating meat which allowed us greater amounts of protein, which allowed our brains to grow. This in time increased our intelligence and creativity.
Humans - and our ancestors greatly resembling modern day homo sapiens - were all nude. Clothing was mainly started at the beginning of the last ice age in norhern europe when the Neanderthals lived in sub-zero temperatures. They were extremely intelligent, and hunted large game, including wooly mammoths. They used furs to make garments, so they would not freeze.
everything around us is adapting and evolving. We are too. It is not an instant process, it took us over 3 million years to go from ape to homo sapien. With the correct triggers, and if we don't kill everything besides ourselves, other species will grow to become more intelligent with time.
Cephalopods and creatures like dolphins, creatures that are highly intelligent, that have high-protein, and already have extremely powerful brains, seem to be next in line on the sentience trail.
Octopai already have brains that can process larger amounts of information than our own, but used for different puropses. Instead of logic and creativity, they use it to control the billions of cells over their bodies to change colors instantly. Dolphins have a developing language, show signs of intelligence and apathy, and can solve problems.
Even birds can be tought to do tasks. Intelligence as a whole is rising, and if left to continue, all species will only be getting more aware and intelligent. In time, we may not be the only species on this planet that is capable of standing up for itself.
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Ka-Moi
Claustraphobic Snail...
Nibbles: 704
Crackin' since: July 2005
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Post by Ka-Moi on Oct 15, 2005 6:40:31 GMT -8
Apes and monkeys can run faster on 4 legs than a human can on 2. Why would they change for slowness?
Apes only eat when they are hungry. Why would they go after large mammoths with tons of meat that they wouldn't be able to eat? Why would apes eat meat anyway? You can get more protein with bugs, yet they still can't get above the level of a 6 year old even with a lot of training.
And birds, they get trained by brainwashing them. You feed them after they do a certain thing, so they learn to do it more to get treats. They don't really learn anything and they aren't concious of what they're really doing. they just want the food. Same with dolphins. And their 'language' is just a way of communicating, since they are very social creatures. It doesn't really have a fixed meaning.
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xeno|oreo
.:Nutcase-In-Chief:.
Nibbles: 5,073
Crackin' since: August 2004
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Post by xeno|oreo on Oct 15, 2005 7:28:12 GMT -8
Walking on two legs allowed them to see predators more easily. And indeed, some apes nowadays walk on two legs too Also, we were close to being modern humans when we hunted mammoths
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Ka-Moi
Claustraphobic Snail...
Nibbles: 704
Crackin' since: July 2005
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Post by Ka-Moi on Oct 15, 2005 10:26:24 GMT -8
Why would apes hunt mammoths? You haven't answered that yet.
And if there were hardly any trees, you can see predators the same as if you were on all fours, because Apes are big creatures and are as tall as humans when they were hunched oer, than if you were on two legs. I highly doubt things would go after apes, since they were vicious and stayed in large groups anyway.
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St. Jimmy
Nibbles: 663
Crackin' since: December 2004
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Post by St. Jimmy on Oct 16, 2005 11:25:47 GMT -8
I'll answer your question, apes wouldn't hunt mammoths, humans would. By the time we started hunting mammoths we weren't apes any more. We started hunting mammoths in the first place not only for food but clothes, bone tools, and fuel for fire. Same reason why Inuit(sp) indians hunt whales.
Another thing, present day apes don't migrate and the big ones have the jungle to protect them and the little monkeys live in large numbers not just a small clan like our ancestors.
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Ka-Moi
Claustraphobic Snail...
Nibbles: 704
Crackin' since: July 2005
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Post by Ka-Moi on Oct 16, 2005 11:49:13 GMT -8
What exacally would the steps leading up to hunting mamoths be? Apes wouldn't hunt excessivly for storage of food, so I don't see how they would ever develop into hunting and gathering humans.. And how'd they loose all their fur?
Why wouldn't the monkies of our 'ancestors' not hang around in large groups as well? More monkies; more protection; less things trying to eat them. You claim they're so smart, so wouldn't this be the most obvious thing to do?
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xeno|oreo
.:Nutcase-In-Chief:.
Nibbles: 5,073
Crackin' since: August 2004
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Post by xeno|oreo on Oct 17, 2005 17:29:32 GMT -8
They did though. Not huge groups, like modern baboons, bit mid-sized groups.
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Ka-Moi
Claustraphobic Snail...
Nibbles: 704
Crackin' since: July 2005
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Post by Ka-Moi on Oct 17, 2005 19:36:43 GMT -8
you're skipping over some questions that are reletivly important here. Check out the first paragraph of my last post. ^^ Unless, of course, you don't HAVE the answer...
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xeno|oreo
.:Nutcase-In-Chief:.
Nibbles: 5,073
Crackin' since: August 2004
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Post by xeno|oreo on Oct 18, 2005 11:35:43 GMT -8
Well, I would've thought it was obvious ^^
Obviously they didn't get up one day and decide they were hungry for mammoth.... they started with gazelles and such.... as time went on, we got smarter, and the ice age began, we used the environment, tools, and fire to assist in hunting ^^
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St. Jimmy
Nibbles: 663
Crackin' since: December 2004
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Post by St. Jimmy on Oct 18, 2005 13:44:27 GMT -8
Secondly, as we got taller and stronger we needed a better source of protien and gazelles were prime targets. Than as we grew in numbers we needed more food and hunted bigger game. And we lost our fur because the climate was very warm humid so we lost our fur to keep cooler.
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