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Post by April on Feb 11, 2007 21:02:17 GMT -8
Ok... I'm reading in my history book right now. Particularly about how in the 1830s, Americans pretty much invaded Hawaiian society, bringing infectious diseases which the Hawaiians were highly vulnerable to...so as a result, by the mid-19th century, we'd killed off half of the native population. I'm just noticing how incredibly selfish these Americans were. We'd already done this to the Indians too...and while the Hawaiian issue may not have been intended...running off the Indians was definitely intended. It's like no one cared that the land was not ours to begin with. Just makes me kind of un-proud to be an American. Maybe I'm going too far with that statement...but it's true. Especially since I have some Indian blood in me...and being from Oklahoma, that's kind of insulting what they did to the Indians on their own land. Another issue about the Hawaiian episode...well it's pretty much general now, because it happens today still... The American missionaries worked to replace the Hawaiian's native religion with Christianity. Let me just say, I can't stand when people try to force THEIR religion on everyone else. It annoys the crap outta me...I realize that freedom of religion is a right that is given to us from the Constitution...but for these people to openly force others to worship THEIR religion is violating that right. I dunno... my classes this semester are opening my eyes to things that I'd never even thought about before... please note that I don't mean to offend anyone with this post... it's just something that gets under my skin...
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xeno|oreo
.:Nutcase-In-Chief:.
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Post by xeno|oreo on Feb 12, 2007 16:28:01 GMT -8
Yup. America just really wanted Hawaii for it's strategic position militarily and for trade, and we were pretty much willing to do whatever we needed to do to get it; after all, who cares about the natives? Since when has that ever stopped anybody?
Course, most peoples have done that kind of thing to some other group at some point in time. It's unfortunate that humans are always trying to exploit each other and such... Meh. We're greedy people.
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Post by April on Feb 13, 2007 14:52:40 GMT -8
Yeah, I guess it's more of a general human trait... now that you mention it.. but still, Americans did it alot. And it's just sad that they have that sort of mentality.
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~*Verlichten*~
Sometimes, Miss Independent wants to be rescued...
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Post by ~*Verlichten*~ on Feb 17, 2007 23:53:02 GMT -8
yeah, and that is the reason that they came over to the "New World" to escape religious oppression and that kind of a thing.
Yeah, its too bad cause now many of those traditions are no longer being practiced. Even our tribe here is trying to regain many of our tradidtions.
But, we, hopefully, learn from the mistakes of the past and ty to move forward....though this may not always be the case..
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Post by FormerlyBlueEyedGirl on Feb 18, 2007 11:24:27 GMT -8
some of the stuff the english did when they colonised australia is so fetid is makes me sick.. this is back when we were first discovered.. we only became a self governing country in 1904.. before that we were a convict colony and something to be settled.. did you know the aboriginies (and other indigeous peoples of that era) thought that europeans were canibals? because the euros would go around body snatching for their museums.. sometimes they killed deliberately, other times they just dug up graves.. and when they werent stealing corpses for bizarre acane knowledge (think about it) they were raping the women, slaughtering the populations(there is no record how many, but most likely in the millions when including the ripple effect), raping the land, killing off the wildlife, moving the poplulations to missionaries, stealing their children, using them as unpaid labour.. and the people were seen to be sub-human.. have you notice how we (human kind) do that? we disassociate so we can justify our actions (think current politics - and dont think conservatively..) - we had our rule handed over to us in australia in 1904 - the year we were federated.. women were granted voting rights after that.. but the thinking had become so ingrained in the society that aboriginals didnt ger rights until like the 1960s.. and then there is the whole 'stolen generation' issue.. goth whitlam - the primeminister who - i swear - was the best we ever had - is the only primeminister who has ever been removed from office.. there is this clause that the queen, in the authority of the Governer General, can remove anyone from office.. and there was a lot of anger ofver his 'radical' changes.. so he was taken out of office.. and a lLiberal was put in power... (we have a two main party system.. lots of different parties, but only Labour and the Liberals have the numbers to be a controlling gov.. labour is for the workers, the poor and liberals are for the rich and the affluent..) anyways, that thinking was ingrained into the social mind.. its gotten bettwer since Mabo in the 1980s...
i am a true aussie.. we dont stand on ceremony, and we have a very multicultural society.. i'm a bitza, and i'm proud of it! "bitsa" as in bits of this and bits of that LOL I have aboriginal blood, scottish, english, prussian, cornish, tad of irish, gypsy, spanish and more.. the spanish, gypsy and aboriginal are about the same quanity.. about a 16th share each.. I had three ancestors in The First Fleet, and two of those were convicts.. we are very proud of our convict past.. but some things are swept under the rug and ignored.. my aboriginal blood isnt igknowledged by older generations of the family (in theor 80s) and because she was a she, not a he, they tend to ignore it.. i think they were married, but i havent seen the marriage certificate, so it might have been defacto..
god human nature sucks!! the winners wirte the history.. hence most of the wrongs done by the winners are ignored and swept under the carpet.. and only a small handfull of society look beyond the common perceptions.. rarely look beyond a highschool textbook.. and we all know how little those actually teach us.. thank god for archaeology!! is there little wonder why that is my profession??
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Post by FormerlyBlueEyedGirl on Feb 18, 2007 11:41:29 GMT -8
i didnt feel i should comment on american history, although i am versed on it, because i am australian.. but i can say that western society is very eurocentric.. they quash anything that isnt exactly like them.. and ignore the rest.. but then i guess, you look at ancient past patterns, and this pattern is also evident in past civilizations, such as the Han Dysnasty in China.. china originally started out as one river valley, and through demanding trade networks, fuedalisation, and outright warfare, they expanded byt the time of about 100BC (dates are fuzzy) to near the largeness they have now.. you could say western civilzation started with the english, the normans, the anglosaxons, the christian romans, the roman empire, then the roman kingdom, then greece (athens, but the other greek city states too) and you can trace it right right back through persia, the mycenanens, the f*ck, you can trace it right back to the city of Ur! conquer, and expand, its a pattern.. i wonder if humans will ever be satisfied.. when is enough enough?
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xeno|oreo
.:Nutcase-In-Chief:.
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Post by xeno|oreo on Feb 18, 2007 12:02:22 GMT -8
Enough is never enough for some... won't rest until the world is under their control and everyone blindly obeys.
Great point. And who is America, the world's currently most imperialistic nation, making out to be sub-human now? North Koreans, Iranians, Syrians, most Middle Easterners in general, and all 'terrorists'; of course ignoring the fact that most of the people that hate America today do so because of the past horrors that America has done to them. The leaders convince the people that the other group is completely different, and pure evil in every way, to justify killing them all.
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Mister Mouse
Si on devait mourir demain, qu'est-ce que tu ferais?
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Post by Mister Mouse on Sept 25, 2007 9:10:46 GMT -8
To me, nothing justifies killing someone else. No matter what. Turn the other cheek - killing is just horrible.
I'll agree with the statement that America is greedy, but really, all of human kind is. We're picky, we're selfish, and we'll do anything to get what we want. It's a cruel truth, but it's still true.
I, myself, am also part Native American, and it sickens me to think of what has been done to my ancestors... to their family. It sickens me to think of what has been done by the powerful countries, what they are doing, and what they will continue to do.
I don't blame the smaller, more opressed countries for fighting back - if you corner a small animal and they are afraid and angry, what are they going to do? They are going to strike back. All of humanity is just another form of an animal - sure, we may be "smarter" than other creatures, but that doesn't mean we're smart. People call murderers and people who kill for pleasure animals, but in reality that is a completely human trait. No animal (or very few) besides the human hunt, stalk, kill for the pleasure of it. With other species it is merely a necessity... with humanity, it's not... and it's WRONG.
-sigh- Humanity is horrible, but April's original comment is right... we're one of the youngest countries out there, and yet our crimes are far greater than many of the elder countries that do exist. We kill, we feel no remorse for our actions, and we move on. It is dispicable.
~Emily~
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xeno|oreo
.:Nutcase-In-Chief:.
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Post by xeno|oreo on Sept 25, 2007 12:30:03 GMT -8
It's also interesting how people tend not to think of their own countries as murderers... no; your own nation is always righteous, and did what it had to do. So many peoples have committed countless atrocities throughout history, but rarely are they looked back on as being.. vile. It's always the other persons' fault
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Mister Mouse
Si on devait mourir demain, qu'est-ce que tu ferais?
Nibbles: 790
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Post by Mister Mouse on Sept 25, 2007 12:37:35 GMT -8
I've noticed that too. But really... all people make mistakes, all nations kill... however, I still think the US is one of the major ones that I would call vile... completely. -shrugs- I suppose I'm just not as patriotic as a lot of our country...
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xeno|oreo
.:Nutcase-In-Chief:.
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Post by xeno|oreo on Sept 25, 2007 12:56:49 GMT -8
In English class, we were discussing all kinds of fundamental American values. I argued that the old ideal of a "The Chosen People" very much applied to the modern US.. America was founded, despite the odds being against it... and indeed was populated by many inhabitants that were highly religious, which I think only helped fuel this.. religion is one of the most spectacular examples of people considering themselves to be a 'chosen people.' The country prospered... it seemed to have excellent fortune.
However, for one, separation of church and state has never exitsted here, nor does it anywhere else. Modern Patriotism, greatly reflects the idea of Americans thinking themselves to be above others... the old idea of "Manifest Destiny," taking whatever we want from whoever we want; The Indians, the Mexicans, whoever... because we are righteous, and we have Divine Will backing us. God Almighty is on our side, and gives us permission to do anything for our own benefit. Just look at phrases that you here every day in your life... "God Bless America." The Pledge of Allegiance, which is still forced upon students... the passage "One Nation, Under God." We truly believe that we can do no wrong... as stated in the religion topic near this one... the definition of Original Sin is to go against the will of god. If you are backed by God, than how can you possibly do wrong?
We are above other people. Our prosperity comes before all other things. We are incapable of doing a foul deed.
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Mister Mouse
Si on devait mourir demain, qu'est-ce que tu ferais?
Nibbles: 790
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Post by Mister Mouse on Sept 25, 2007 13:16:32 GMT -8
And we are jackasses who need to realize that we CAN do wrong and we quite often DO do wrong...
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